Fandom After Dark

[cuddyclothes]

NSFW Ahoy!

Anything goes!

Comments

What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[cuddyclothes]

I was reading over the many phenomenal fills in the kinkiness thread, and I found myself asking: Jeeves has an interesting place in fan's psychology. Anyone care to talk about this?

Anonymous is encouraged!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, to be honest, I rather identify myself with Jeeves, not in a sensual way though.
It‘s only that I‘m getting called „a living dictionary“ by my friends (but in a negative tone) and the first time I read the Jeeves-stories it gave me a really good feeling, like there‘re other people like me out there.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm wow, great question. For me I think it's about propriety: always speaking and acting and dressing just so, doing everything properly/appropriately/competently, and making it look effortless & magical without ever revealing your methods. He's incredibly boxed-in/constrained by his class & station in life, but makes the best of it and pulls it off gracefully. You could argue it's almost a metaphor for being a woman, now that I think of it. So that's why I think I've enjoyed writing stories about him overcoming all these rules of propriety that are stifling & repressing him. It's wish fulfillment. I think myself and everyone else who feels like they're forced to conform to standards of "conventional respectability" should get to transgress them in some way at least once in a while.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Relatedly, his relationship with Bertie also has its own kind of symbolism for me. Growing up I always had crushes on teachers and other authority figures, and I still find imbalanced power dynamics/abuse of authority to be really hot. The idea is basically, if someone has a lot to lose by pursuing a person who's off-limits, but then goes ahead and does it anyway, they must really, really want to, and that kind of uncontrollable desire is very captivating. Jeeves and Bertie have so much working against them ever getting together that they have to really, really want each other in order for it to happen.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Alright, let me just say that I personally always perceive characters in 2 very distinct ways: first there is the character as a "person", and then the character as a concept, or an idea, or a symbol: basically what the character stands for.

So to me there is Jeeves the (fictional) person, with all his complexities, and then Jeeves the concept.

1. Jeeves the person:
I tend not to analyze characters as people. I like to explore them, yes, write about them, imagine their reactions to certain situations, etc... I can like them or hate them, I can admire them, laugh at them, judge them - basically, I treat them as I would treat actual people.
So in that sense, I could say that Jeeves doesn't symbolize anything to me, that he's just a person I really, really love.
HOWEVER. Since Jeeves is a fictional person, there is another side of him that is open to interpretation, analysis and study.

2. Jeeves the concept:
Here I can finally say that yeah, Jeeves does in fact symbolize stuff for me.
Of course there's the stuff that Wodehouse might have wanted Jeeves to stand for. But I won't be talking about that: everything I'm about to say is just my very personal interpretation.

- Jeeves is a valet who acts more like an aristocrat than the actual aristocrats he serves. The "feudal spirit", as Bertie calls it, is so ingrained in Jeeves that he doesn't question it, doesn't even accept that it might be dying or at least outdated. To him it is simply how the world works - his world, at least.
- Jeeves also takes great pride in doing his job the best he can. He's a perfectionist, and it seems that he truly loves what he does. He's passionate about clothes, about cleaning, keeping everything in order, and although this is never mentioned in canon, but I bet you he's passionate about cooking too.
- Jeeves is ambitious. Not in the sense that he wants to be insanely rich or famous, but he is very often motivated by personal interest (for example: he wants to go on a cruise and Bertie isn't being cooperating / he earns money out of a scheme / he wants to get rid of an item of clothing)
- And then, of course, Jeeves is a genius. He's book smart, but also clever and streetwise, and he knows the human psyche well enough to get away with just about anything.

So there. To me, Jeeves symbolizes those 4 things:
- Having firm principles and a fixed worldview
- Passion (especially being passionate and dedicated to one's work)
- Ambition
- Genius

There are other things of course. He's sophisticated, he's subtle, he's funny. And then his relationship with Bertie makes him endearing as well.

Gosh, I didn't mean for this to be so long. I could talk about Jeeves for ages!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

I love it! It's helping me clarify my thinking about Jeeves.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Why, thank you! :D

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Touching on what others have said, Jeeves presents an interesting masculine/feminine dichotomy. His role as Bertie’s servant puts him in the position of wife, as many writers (including PGW) have said. He takes care of his master and the household, arranges their lives, etc. Jeeves does the shopping, cooking, cleaning, bed making, ironing, etc. Between that and being confined by social class to a certain kind of life, that might all read as traditionally feminine. For me there is an inherent sexiness in a (very, at least in fandom) masculine man doing all of that superbly and finding meaning in service. Almost like subjugation, which can also be read as traditionally feminine.

However, he is quite a masculine man (whether you go by Stephen Fry or the books). For me he is a magnetic symbol of a certain type of masculinity. Brilliant, reserved, passionate and if he knows so much about everything else, he probably knows a hell of a lot about sex! In fanfic Jeeves is often described using masculine signifiers: broad shoulders, large/massive hands, wide/massive chest, strong arms, deep voice. I like imagining all of the excitement brewing underneath the gorgeous serene exterior.

One thought I had is that Jeeves is Spock without the inner turmoil. Jeeves has strong emotions but he is not knotted in internal agony like Spock or, to a lesser extent Sherlock Holmes. However, his external passivity makes him (for me) a blank canvas. I don’t think of him as someone gripped by angst or despair. Bertie and Jeeves prove opposites attract.

Jeeves is a gorgeous blank canvas that I can paint anything I want on.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

*appears out of nowhere on a starship* did someone say Spock??

I absolutely agree with everything said here. Especially the part about how Jeeves is Spock without the inner turmoil, or Sherlock Holmes without the impending madness. Jeeves is basically what Spock or Holmes would have been if they had made peace with their emotions early on.

"Jeeves is a gorgeous blank canvas that I can paint anything I want on." SO TRUE! SO SO TRUE AND SO BEAUTIFULLY SAID!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

Why, thank you!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

For myself, I don't see him as particularly masculine, either physically or in personality. I have noticed that a lot of fics portray him as a big strapping manly man, which is not really my type anyway. I see him as tall but with a more average body type, not especially physically fit, a bit more effeminate, metrosexual basically. I agree about finding his domestic competence inherently sexy, but I've always been into men who are more androgynous/blurring traditional gender lines, so it doesn't need to contrast with him being extra masc to be attractive.

Also in fic Bertie is often described as extremely thin, but I see him as a little more solid than that. An otter, not a twink! More masculine than Jeeves in some ways and less in other ways.

I also usually read Jeeves as not being very sexual experienced. He just seems too reserved/prude/proper to have done a ton of philandering. Although with this topic and all others, I'm open to other interpretations and really enjoy hearing people's different perspectives!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree about Bertie. In canon he describes himself as willowy; another character envies how well he looks in clothes. I like "an otter, not a twink"!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

I also recently read the story where Rocky borrows his evening clothes and is apparently several sizes too big for them, even though Rocky is never described as a particularly large guy. So Bertie's definitely slender-ish, I just don't see any evidence that he's actually, like, scrawny.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

I think of Jeeves as being sexually experienced. For one thing, he's been a servant in a large household where all sorts of things are got up to. Perhaps he's too reserved for philandering, but I assume he knows enough to handle himself well in the bedroom.

But I don't think of him as being as brilliant about sex as he is about everything else. If someone else wants to read him that way, well, more fun reading for me!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree about Jeeves not being muscular and hyper-masculine: I don't view him as particularly fit or imposing. But I do see him as sexually experienced. He just seems to understand himself so well, and accept everything about himself.

And to me Bertie is a Pure Twink hahaha The twinkiest twink that ever twinked (which, if I'm being perfectly honest, is 100% my type!)

But of course this is all just personal headcanon!

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

What is a twink?

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[cuddyclothes]

From Wikipedia:
Twink is gay slang for a young man in his late teens to early twenties whose traits may include: general physical attractiveness; little to no body or facial hair; a slim to average build; and a youthful appearance that belies an older chronological age.

Re: What Does Jeeves Symbolize?

[(Anonymous)]

My personal headcanon is a large man around mid-40s, athlete when young but less so, tall and heavily built. That's one of my favorite types, so why not? Some writers describe him as "perfect" but that's not what I imagine. Wodehouse describes him in stage directions for an unproduced play as being in his 40s. I'll try to look that up at some time. In "Ring For Jeeves", the only book without Bertie, he is described, among other things, as looking like the youngish High Priest of a dignified religion.